LuxEsto - The Digital Magazine of Kalamazoo College

Chasing The Threads

"CHASING THE THREADS" with art by Drew Brockington '04 and words by Fran Czuk. Panel 1: Black text in a yellow box narrates: "Drew Brockington Class of 2004 tried hard not to attend Kalamazoo College.” A young Drew Brockington, wearing glasses, a blue shirt and yellow backpack, stands in front of trees outside Hicks Student Center, and speaks in a white speech bubble: "I looked at other schools in the area, but in the end, what brought me to K was that they were flexible and they would let you experiment." Black text in a yellow box narrates: He wanted to forge his own path, after all. At K, his dad, Joe Brockington, was a German professor and director of the Center for International Programs, and he would be following in the steps of his brothers, David Brockington ’99 and Sam Brockington ’01. 

Panel 2: The background is a light peach color. Drew is in his room, wearing a red shirt, holding a pencil. Behind him floats a film reel labeled "FILM," a hamburger and a comic book labeled "COMICS" with a robot on the cover. Black text in a yellow box says: "Other schools advised Brockington that his two areas of interest—art and filmmaking—would take him seven years to tackle. Then he toured K, where Dhera Strauss in the film department and Tom Rice in the art department assured him they could chart a four-year path."  In a white speech bubble, Drew says: "I knew these were people who would work with me and figure out how my interests fit in with what they were teaching." 

Panel 3: Two characters are standing in front of a peach background. On the left, Drew wears a green plaid jacket over a white "I LOVE SKA" shirt, smiling excitedly. On the right, Professor of Art Tom Rice with dark hair in a blue sweater holds a "High School Comics" book. Drew in a white speech bubble says: "I remember showing my portfolio to the art department, and I had the high school still-life drawings, and then I also had this whole swath of cartoons and comics. It was a huge sigh of relief when Tom Rice was like—" Tom Rice speaks in a yellow speech bubble: "Oh, yeah, we have somebody else who did a comic book for their Senior Integrated Project." Drew says in a white speech bubble: "I knew they’d seen this before."  

Panel 4: In a solid purple classroom, two students, Drew in a red shirt  with glasses and another student with blue hair, sit at desks taking notes. Billie Fischer, a woman with white hair and a big smile, is teaching an art history class. She wears a yellow top and a green skirt, and is pointing to an image of a woman with a teal shirt and white hat painting a person in a blue outfit playing a string instrument. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "Brockington ended up with a major in art and art history and quickly fell in love with Billie Fischer’s art history courses. For a lifelong comic fan and creator, dissecting the layers of imagery, analyzing foreground and background and composition, and learning the stories behind the images proved irresistible."  

Panel 5: On the left, Drew with glasses and beard stubble and wearing a yellow shirt that says "KNEE DEEP SHAG," energetically paints with a brush, splattering purple paint with "SPLAT!" and "SPLORT!" sound effects. He says in a speech bubble, "The professors were amazing to bounce ideas off of. I loved it when I would be working in the studio, and I’d feel Tom’s presence behind me. He would be standing there and he always had a little bag of peanuts he was snacking on. " On the right, Tom Rice, wearing a blue sweater, holds a small bag. The background is a solid blue. 

Panel 6: Tom Rice in a blue sweater stands deep in thought against a teal background, with a hand on his chin and a small speech bubble saying "HMMMMM…". Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "I’d be in headphones and turn around and see him. Maybe he would say something, maybe he wouldn’t. Either way, it was like, OK, he’s thinking about it, he’ll tell me if something’s up; otherwise, just keep going."
Panel 7: The scene is the lower quad with the Hoben Residence Hall building in the background, featuring a tree-lined campus scene. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "Brockington loved living on campus, which he did all four years." On the left, a person runs with a tray labeled "Person Running with cake!" On the right, Drew with two other students play with a Frisbee, which hits a tree with a "WHAK!" sound effect. Drew, wearing a yellow shirt and blue jeans, speaks in a white speech bubble: "I felt very at home there. I loved the freedom of walking around and having my own schedule."  

Panel 8: The scene is the upper quad during winter, featuring Hicks and Stetson Chapel in the background with snow-covered ground and bare trees. On the left, Drew, in a blue jacket and orange hat with a "K" on it, shapes a snow sculpture, and says with a white speech bubble: "When we had the first substantial snow of the season, I would sometimes make a snow sculpture." On the right, Drew gestures excitedly towards another snow sculpture, speaking in a white speech bubble : "There was one year that somebody else made a snow sculpture maybe 30 feet away from mine, and I was like, ‘Oh, this is cool. We’re doing a little sculpture garden.’" 

Panel 9: The scene is Drew’s dad's office, with a cluttered desk covered in papers, books, and a box labeled "IMPORTANT STUFF. The background is a solid teal color. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "Despite his reservations, Brockington also cherished sharing campus with his dad."  On the left, Drew's dad, an older man with white hair and a beard, wearing glasses and a blue shirt with a red tie, sits at the desk. On the right, Drew Brockington '04, wearing a yellow shirt, smiles enthusiastically. Drew speaks in white speech bubbles: "One of my favorite things to do was to walk right into the study abroad office in the morning and talk to him for five or 10 minutes. I joke that I saw my dad more when I was at K than I did growing up."  

Panel 10: Comic Strip 1 (Top Row): 

Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He studied abroad in Rome, where he was able to see much of the art he’d studied in classes and kept an ‘Indiana Jones journal’ of sketches." Drew wears a yellow shirt, stands in Rome, holding a bowl of pasta and a sketchbook labeled "ROMA." The background shows Roman architecture. Drew speaks in a white speech bubble : "Basta pasta!"  

Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He tried out for Monkapult improv group, failed to earn a spot, and committed himself to attending all their workshops and improving." Drew in a red shirt with a bear on it stands excitedly with arms raised, near a person sitting in a chair in a blue shirt, and a person relaxed on the ground waving in a green shirt. Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "Yes, and I got in junior year and had the best time."  

Comic Strip 2 (Bottom Row): 
Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He worked off campus with Education for the Arts in Kalamazoo in their digital art lab. He created a cover for The Cauldron, Kalamazoo College’s annual student literary and visual art magazine. He drew a comic for The Index student newspaper." A character with dark hair in a top knot stands against an aqua background and holds a newspaper labeled "THE INDEX: SQUIRREL ON THE QUAD," She says, "Hey, there’s comics!"  

Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He played in a band called Cactus Folk that performed folk and bluegrass covers and original songs in the student-run coffee shop." The background is green. Four musicians are performing. One play guitars, another a viola, and a third sings. Drew, with glasses and a cowboy hat, also strums a guitar. He speaks in a white speech bubble: "Instead of a fiddle, we had a viola."
Panel 11: Black text in a yellow box narrates: "For his SIP, Brockington completed an art installation titled Personal Curve. He painted large plywood panels, which he anchored at the floor and hung out from the wall." The background shows the gallery space with a purple floor and gray walls. Drew,  in a red shirt and green sleeves, crouches under the large, orange panels in the gallery. Drew speaks in white speech bubbles: "The heavy intellectual thing was that it was activating the gallery space. Usually, when you’re in an art gallery, you’re just looking at the painting on the wall and you’re noticing what’s in the painting, but you’re not really noticing the rest of the room. This was designed so that to look at the painting, you had to be aware of yourself within the space. If you wanted to look at the bottom, you had to crouch down and get under there. You had to climb around the back to see how it’s held up.” 

Panel 12: The background is the art gallery. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "The SIP process represented a microcosm of the whole K experience for Brockington." Drew, on the right,  wearing a red plaid shirt, gestures enthusiastically with a raised hand to a man in a blue shirt and glasses and Tom Rice in a gray-blue t-shirt; both are deep in thought with hands on their chins. Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "There was freedom to experiment and start building something that wasn’t working, and it really honored that creative process. That is a huge, huge takeaway for me, that building process. When you’re building something that you don’t know how to make—it never existed before—you’ve got to give yourself the patience to create it and mess it up and redo parts of it. Eventually you’re gonna get it done."  

Panel 13: Drew works at a desk in front of a solid teal background. Wearing a green shirt and a blue beanie, he works at a laptop adorned with stickers of a cat, Pikachu, and a "3rd Flair" label. A mug labeled "DRINK ME!" sits on the desk. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "The open curriculum offered a similar and formative freedom." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "I never felt like it was, ‘You need to study this,’ or, ‘This is your path to graduation.’ It was always a conversation about, ‘Well, what do you want to study? You need to do some math, you need to do some science, what interests you in those categories?’ There was a lot of room to try different things. That’s something I’ve carried over. Working for myself, I need to learn some business skills; what’s going to be the best way for me to do that? K taught me to dig a little and make sure I’m finding something that’s going to work for me in the best way possible."

Panel 14: Scene is New York City’s Central Park. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "During his senior year at K, Brockington wrote an article for The Index on environmental art. In the course of his research, he read about artists Christo and Jeanne-Claude and came across an application to work on their upcoming project, The Gates, in New York City’s Central Park." On the right is a character in a blue shirt with a red backpack.  On the left, Drew, wearing a blue hat, a gray vest with "The Gates" written in red, and a purple long shirt underneath, speaks in white speech bubbles: "In January 2005, I flew to New York. My roommate from K, Dan Hoty, was doing the master’s program at NYU, so I crashed on the floor of his little 8-foot by 8-foot room in the heart of Manhattan. I spent two months working on The Gates project." The background shows trees, grass, and orange structures from The Gates project.
Panel 15: Drew sits on a bench overlooking the city, facing away from the viewer, wearing a green shirt. The background shows a cityscape with a skyline of tall buildings in shades of purple and a bridge with suspension-structures on the right, Black text in a yellow box narrates: "Brockington loved New York City and decided to stay. He took over the other half of Hoty’s apartment lease, so they were roommates again, and he spent the next eight years in NYC."  

Panel 16: fDrew, wearing a blue hat and a white shirt with blue jeans, stands in an art gallery with aqua walls and a purple floor. He is arranging orange rectangular panels on the wall, with an open box containing more panels on the floor beside him. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He worked first as an art handler." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "Whenever the galleries would change their shows, I would take down the old show and put up the new one. I had to prep the walls every time, so I got very good at sanding walls and painting them white. I had a great base for that because two or three summers I worked at K painting dorm rooms." 

Panel 17: Drew, wearing a blue shirt with "I’D RATHER BE SAILING" written on the back, stands and looks at a blank canvas with abstract black lines on it. The canvas is on a beige wall; the floor is blue. Black text in a yellow box narrates: "He started a master’s program at NYU." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "I did not like that. That program made it feel like making it as an artist was more about which workshop you attended or which gallerist you knew, rather than your own work."  

Panel 18: A yellow box with black text narrates: "After leaving that program, he took a graphic design internship with stationery company Ceci New York that turned into a full-time job he worked for about six years. The company made high-end wedding invitations, such as a Claude Monet-themed velvet music box that opened to play music and pop up a bridge over a pond of lily pads." Drew, wearing glasses, a white dress shirt, and a tie, holds a decorative card. The background is a gradient of peach and pink tones. He says in white speech bubbles, "Everything was amazing and over the top and it totally scratched that itch of the creative process. I was experimenting with different materials and techniques of printing and laser cutting and all sorts of things. I got a lot of practice with the accountability aspect of deadlines. Brides and their families are some of the hardest clients to work for. It taught me sometimes you gotta sit in the chair, you gotta get it done. The dates are set, so work backwards from your goal and figure out how to get it done. Every project was a blank slate. To go from an initial meeting with the client to a final project was total creativity. What do you have in your head? What do you envision, and how can we translate this and generate that?" Drew reacts with excitement to the card he is holding, saying, "Ooooh, shiny!", followed by a reflective comment: "That was an amazing job. It was a hard job."
Panel 19:  Black text in a yellow box narrates: "During his years in New York, Brockington met and married his wife, Joanne. They lived for a time in Brooklyn, in a neighborhood with a cheese shop that held a cheese eating contest each spring." Drew, in a green shirt, stands next to a woman with long dark hair in a purple "NYPOPS" shirt. Drew says in a white speech bubble, "I was literally walking down the street at the street festival, and they were like, ‘Come do a cheese eating contest.’ I was like, ‘OK, let’s go.’" Another white speech bubble reads, "The next year I started reading and watching videos of how pro eaters train; like, they eat cabbage to practice their chewing." An arm holding a plate with a piece of Swiss cheese is extended toward them, set against a peach-colored background. 

Panel 20:  The background is a light blue gradient. Drew, wearing glasses and a green shirt, is shown with his mouth open, enthusiastically eating a piece of yellow cheese. Large, colorful text in yellow and red reads "Nom! Nom! INOM!!" around him. Drew holds another piece of cheese in his hand and says in a white speech bubble, "I did it two more years, and my last year, my personal best was 8 ounces of cheddar in under two minutes."  

Panel 21: Features a purple background with two characters at a table. On the left, Joanna wearing a light green shirt works on a laptop. On the right, Drew is wearing glasses, an orange shirt and a blue cap, draws on paper with a pencil, with colored markers nearby. A yellow box with black text reads: "In 2012, seeking a return to the Midwest, Drew and Joanne moved to Minneapolis, where two of Joanne’s sisters lived." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "Joanne was working in marketing at the time, and I was getting interested in comics, illustration and children’s literature." 

Panel 22: Three characters sit behind a table with a gray tablecloth. The background is green. The table is covered with comic books, including one labeled "BEACON." On the left, a woman with short brown hair in a blue shirt smiles. In the center, Drew, in a purple shirt, sits with a stack of books. On the right, a man with short black hair in a yellow shirt is present. Drew speaks in white speech bubbles: "My main focus was working on a graphic novel called Beacon. It’s a spooky ghost story with big zombies and monsters." I self-produced it and started going to comic shows. Anywhere I could get my book in front of people, I would go." 

Panel 23: Drew, in a red shirt, stands with a thoughtful expression. Above his head in a blue thought bubble are floating images of books with whimsical covers, including a purple book with a mushroom character, a yellow book with a dog, and a red book with a clown. A yellow box with black text reads: "At each show, he would have 6 feet of table to fill, and there he would be with his single book, releasing one chapter at a time. He started thinking about what else he could put on his table, experimenting with little comics and drawings." Another yellow box with black text states: "The shows offered instant feedback, as he could see what people would pick up, what they would read and what they would buy." 

Panel 24: An open notebook with a spiral binding and an eraser on top sits on a desk. On the page, a drawing of a black-and-white cat wearing a spacesuit is illustrated. In the background, a purple "Pocket Brush" pen and a teal mug are visible on the desk’s brown surface. Drew speaks in white speech bubbles, saying "As I'm working on this grisly, dark graphic novel, I started doodling fun, silly, light-hearted things as a way to balance what I was creating. One of those little drawings was a cat in a spacesuit." 

Panel 25: A cover of "CatStronauts in Space!" shows two cats in spacesuits floating in space with a starry background. To the right, three smaller panels depict scenes from the comic: the first shows a building labeled "CATSTRONAUT HQ" with a space shuttle and cats nearby; the second shows cats in spacesuits preparing for a mission, one saying "Let's suit up!"; the third shows a cat in a spacesuit inside a shuttle. Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "CatStronauts started as a fun little 10-page comic. These little cats go up in a space shuttle and fix a fish-finding satellite with a ball of yarn. When they come back, there’s a parade." 

Panel 26: On the left, Drew wears a green t-shirt and sits at a table with a blue cloth. He holds a book titled "BEACON." In the center, a man with short brown hair in a light blue shirt holds a "CatStronauts" book and smiles. On the right, a woman with blue hair in a bun, wearing a purple shirt and a red bag, looks excited. A white speech bubble with black text from Drew reads: "At comic shows, I was like, ‘Look at this lighthouse zombie book,’ and people are like, ‘Oh, what’s that little space cat book?’"
Panel 27: Drew stands behind a table covered with a blue cloth. He wears a turquoise shirt with a fish illustration and the text "PREPARE FOR LUNCH." He holds two "CatStronauts" comics, one in each hand, and smiles excitedly. On the table, there are stacks of "CatStronauts" comics, a display of original art, and additional comics. A yellow box with black text narrates: "Brockington brought 100 CatStronauts comics to a show and sold out of them—his first time selling out of something he made, and the first time he turned a profit at a show." 

Panel 28: The scene is a purple map of the United States with a cat in a spacesuit floating in the center. Teal arrows point outward from the cat, indicating distribution across the country. A yellow box with black text reads: "He also left that show with a contact interested in getting CatStronauts into local comic shops, which resulted in Brockington selling almost 3,000 CatStronauts comics to shops all over the U.S. over the next year and a half. An editor browsing an Upper East Side comic bookstore bought one and reached out to Brockington about pitching it as a graphic novel." Another yellow box with black text states: "Things were happening!" 

Panel 29: A yellow box with black text reads: "They worked together on the pitch, the editor took it to the publisher, and then—nothing. For four months." Drew,  wearing a red sweater, sits at a desk with a computer displaying "AOL MAIL" on the screen. The screen shows "WELCOME YOU HAVE NO MAIL." Drew looks disappointed, resting his head on his hand.  

Panel 30: Drew, wearing a white chef’s hat and outfit, stands with a surprised expression, tossing a pizza dough in the air with both hands. The background is peach colored. A white speech bubble reads: "During that window of silence, I was trying to figure out, what do I do? Do I learn how to become a general contractor? Do I try to open a pizzeria? What can I do with my life at this point?" Another white speech bubble states: "Then all of a sudden, everything steamrolled." 

Panel:31 Drew , wearing a green t-shirt, holds a retro phone to his ear with an excited expression. The background is a yellow-orange gradient. A white speech bubble with black text reads: "The editor called me and was like, ‘Your book got approved, but instead of one book, they want to do a whole series.’ 

Panel 32: Drew, wearing a purple t-shirt with a ghost design, holds up a "PUBLISHING CONTRACT" with his signature "Drew!" above his head, smiling widely. The contract glows yellow against a green background. Drew says in a white speech bubble: "Within a period of a month, I went from a little self-producing zine indie comics person to, now I'm going to be published."

Panel 33: Drew, wearing a green cap and purple t-shirt with an owl design, stands in a dynamic pose, balancing on one leg while holding papers in one hand, looking determined. A yellow box with black text reads: "A friend in publishing advised Brockington to find an agent, and they helped negotiate a four-book series deal for CatStronauts." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble, saying, "Pretty much since then, it has been, OK, let’s keep going. Let’s not stop." Another speech bubble says, "How does the publishing world work? How can I survive if this is what I do full time? I know lots of writers and illustrators who do multiple jobs in order to make their illustrations and things like that, but I want this to be my full-time thing.How can I make that happen?"
Panel 34: There is a colorful display of Drew Brockington's published book covers. Black text in a yellow box at the top narrates: "The first CatStronauts book was published in 2017, and since then, Brockington has finished seven books and written an eighth. (He hopes to reach 10 books in the popular later-elementary graphic novel series and has outlines drawn up.)"  Black text in a yellow box at the bottom narrates: "He has also published four CatStronauts Kitten Adventures about Waffles and Pancake, a graphic novel called Metropolis Grove, and two picture books, Hangry and Puppy Bus. A CatStronauts board game arrives in game stores this spring, and Brockington is working on some other adaptations." The background is a gradient of teal and purple. 

Panel 35: Drew, wearing a green shirt, brown beanie and headphones, sits at a desk with a drawing a comic of a cat in a spacesuit. Black text in a yellow box narrates: " From his independent work at K and in graphic design, Brockington developed a commitment to self-discipline, planning and scheduling. He is part of a community of artists who provide each other with support, encouragement, brainstorming and understanding." Drew speaks in a white speech bubble with black text: " I’m working for myself, but it’s still a job."  The background is a solid teal color

Panel 36: Drew draws cats in a sketchbook with a cup labeled "ART FUEL" nearby.  He speaks in a white speech bubble, saying, "I keep a very rigid schedule for when I need to sit and draw or write, and sometimes the creative process interferes with my work schedule from 9 to 4." 

Panel 37: Drew wears a NASA cap and a sweatshirt with a cat on a skateboard and works at a desk on a laptop decorated with stickers (including "How Do You Want This" and a Tri-force symbol).  Papers with cat drawings and a desk lamp are also visible. Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "When I get stuck, I have to think, 'What else can I do in this time, how can I turn things around?'"

Panel 38: A comic strip timeline illustrates the creation process of a graphic novel by Brockington. The black text in a yellow box reads, "A graphic novel takes Brockington about eight months from when the pitch is approved to completion." The process is divided into stages: Script (with a detailed outline), Sketch (rough pencil drawings of cats in a classroom setting), Pencils (refined pencil art), Inks (inklined drawings), Colors (colored panels), and Words & SFX (final text and effects). Additional text notes, "Each step takes about a month and a half, at a pace of five pages a day."

Panel 39: Drew wears a "Pawsome" t-shirt with a cat design, and he stands in front of a flip chart with a humorous drawing of a cat labeled with "Doritos, Noodles,Skittles, and Potato." His audience is a row of cat silhouettes. The black text in a yellow box reads, "Brockington still loves making books, and meeting the kids who read them-and the kids who don’t (yet)."  Drew speaks in a white speech bubble: "I’ve started doing school tours in the winter. It doesn’t feel like I’m trying to sell them on a book; I’m talking to them about something they love." Another speech bubble says, "That is a really fun part of this job that no one tells you about when you get that first contract for kids publishing."
Panel 40: Drew falls off a skateboard at a skatepark, with a "SLAM!" sound effect. He is wearing a helmet, knee pads, and elbow pads. The black text in a yellow box reads, "On a personal level, in the last couple of years, Brockington started learning how to skateboard." Drew's speech bubble says, "It’s been such therapy for me. It’s learning how to control your fear and your balance, and it’s something you can see yourself constantly improve at, which is very cool." 

Panel 41: The Brockington family: Drew wearing a NASA cap, Joanna in a yellow dress, two children with one wearing heart-shaped glasses, and a dog.  In a speech bubble, Drew says, "Life right now is a lot of family and a lot of protecting my time so that I can actually sit down and create at the drawing table." The second speech bubble says, "I have 9-year-old twins. We just had a ballet weekend with baseball before it, and the ballerina is also the baseball player, so there’s lots of juggling. It’s hectic but very fun." 

Panel 42: The Brockington family sits at dinner, with Drew wearing a purple hat, Joanna  in a brown shirt, a child in an orange shirt, and a child in a green shirt, all around a table with food and drinks. The black text in a yellow box narrates, "His twins read his books, and sometimes inspire them, too."  Drew says in a speech bubble, "We were having dinner one night, and my kid Simon said, 'Meatball Mountain,' and I said, 'Wait, hold on. That could be a book!'" In another speech bubble, he says, "So now I've got the wheels spinning, like, OK, what would the story of meatball mountain be?" 

Panel 43: Drew wears a NASA cap and an orange shirt with a Rubik’s Cube, standing in front of a green chalkboard with "WHAT I LEARNED" written on it. The black text in a yellow box reads, "That openness to new ideas has been a crucial constant for Brockington since his time at K." Drew's speech bubble says, "Don't just look in one spot. Expand your horizon a little bit and chase that thread." 

Panel 44: Drew wears a purple t-shirt with a Pac Man ghost on it and a blue NASA baseball cap. He stands on the right, gesturing with his left hand and smiling broadly. To his left is a simplified, light gray rendering of a classical male nude sculpture, The David. The background is a textured reddish-pink. Two white speech bubbles read, "My takeaway from art wasn't just studio classes. That was part of it, but it was also all that I absorbed from art history and how love of art history led me to take other courses. I took a couple of religion classes because of everything I learned studying the Renaissance paintings, and I really enjoyed those."  

Panel 45: Drew, wearing a NASA cap and a green shirt with a bear illustration, stands outdoors on a path with trees and The Gate art structures in the background. Drew’s speech bubble reads, "I took an environmental science class and that led me to wonder, how is the environment considered in art? Then that research led me to Jeanne-Claude and Christo, which opened up a whole ‘nother door." 

Panel 46: Drew, wearing a NASA cap and a blue shirt with a skull design, pulls a white thread attached to a tag labeled "NEXT BIG THING." The background is a blue, wavy gradient. 

 Drew’s speech bubble,reads, "The lifelong learning that K talked about has set me up to value my curiosity, keep digging, keep expanding..." Drew’s second speech bubble says, "...keep pulling those threads."

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